In Yahoo's 'Voice Over IM' Targets Skype Ryan Naraine starts his article by saying:
The Yahoo Messenger makeover puts the Sunnyvale, Calif.-based Web portal up against startups Skype Technologies S.A. and Teleo Inc., two companies that have found success by offering IM and voice connection services from a downloadable application.
Which seems to reaffirm the headline. But then comes the deal breaker for nearly every Skype user I know.
While Skype and Teleo provide users with the ability to make and receive calls from and to traditional telephone lines, Yahoo Inc's will be limited to PC-to-PC calling to contacts on the messenger buddy list.
(Emphasis mine.)
Let me make the point in a different way. This is Voice Over IM (VOIM), a subset of what the real Voice Over IP (VOIP) market is and a subset of what Skype offers.
Nearly every Skype user I've talked to about the service uses it specifically because it allows them to call regular phone numbers cheaply. The fact that they have to run Yet Another IM App is not a selling point.
I get why people say Yahoo was targeting Napster with our music subscription service, but this one puzzles me. If I'm limited to calling only other Yahoo Messenger users, it's hardly a "Skype Killer."
But then again, I'm not one of the "soccer moms in the Midwest."
Don't get me wrong. PC-to-PC "calling" is useful. It's been in Yahoo Messenger since the late 90s. But it's also no Skype.
Posted by jzawodn at May 18, 2005 03:35 PM
Don't you think Yahoo! is purposely trying to mislead people to thinking that VOIP is being supported when the title of the press release for IM 7.0 Beta is: "Yahoo! Messenger Announces Free, High-Quality Worldwide Calling." I don't see what the big deal is - you could already use voice in IM 6.0.... maybe the quality is better. I will have to try. The voice mail is nice though...
You're absolutely right to observe that many Skype users use it because of the PC-to-Real Phone capability. It's certainly the reason I use it. As a longtime Yahoo fan, I would have loved to have seen this capability built into Yahoo IM, because honestly, it would be a big distinguishing factor for me not only from a real phone calling perspective, but also because it would likely encourage me to use Yahoo IM more often than I currently do. However, I will definitely check out the voice capability with other friends who use Yahoo, but do have to pose the question, how will that capability be any different than the current voice chat function?
Jack, the new Yahoo IM does full-duplex conversation unlike the previous version which was only half duplex. Quality is reasonable (I did a call from Hong Kong -> India). The 5 way voice conferencing of Skype and it's multi-platform availability is what I find more compelling than Y! IM from a voice perspective
Skype's ability to connect to traditional phone service came long after it became a killer app.
SkypeOut shipped (beta) in Aug 04 and SkypeIn (beta) launched April 05. When SkypeIn was announced last month, the boast was that they had 100 million subscribers. Methinks you're a bit off-base about the reasons for Skype's popularity but maybe we're talking to different people.
The voice-calling in your Messenger beta is a *significant* upgrade over the walkie-talkie-type thing in prior versions. This is closer to the phone experience where both users can talk at the same time without delays and breakages.
Oh, and your executives were happy to use the Skype references when I was being briefed ;)
100 million? That's shocking. I guess Skype's target audience is very different from the people *I* know using Skype.
(insert head scratching)
I wonder if the majoriy of them were from countries with less established telephone monopolies?
As for the exec comments... Well, it wouldn't be the first time I didn't agree with the party line.
Thanks for dropping by, Ryan. It's useful to know when perceptions on the inside are wildly different from the reality elsewhere.
The 100 million figure is the Skype party line. Would you say 30 million is a more believable figure? Of that, how many would you guess are paying for calls?
I'd wager than 85% of all Skype users have not upgraded to the premium services. I could be wrong but the early-adopter crowd is hardly a good measuring stick.
Thanks for the welcome. I'm an avid follower of your blog/linkblog and always appreciate the feedback on my work.
VOIP is VOIP. Doesn't have to be TOIP. Someday there will be no PSTN.
Yahoo actually overnighted me the release along with a free Plantronics headset. I was underwhelmed.
I thought the same thing you wrote when I read all the hooplah surrounding the new Yahoo Messenger release including reading the comparison to Teleo & Skype.
I nearly blogged the same thing you did this morning, but was too busy. Guess great minds think alike! : )
Alyce Lomax from Fool.com doesn't really make this VOIM vs. VOIP distinction very clear in her article Can you Yahoo! Me Later?: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/fool/20050518/bs_fool_fool/111644440521
She says, "Yahoo! is apparently testing a new version of its Yahoo! Messenger service that incorporates unlimited, free, global voice over Internet protocol, or VoIP, technology."
She goes on to talk all about VOIP, and does mention that you have to talk to your computer (through Yahoo! Messenger) to use the new Yahoo! service, but fails to include that the recipient of your call must also use a computer, unlike with VOIP.
I have to say, when I first hear about this and even read about it on the Yahoo! Messenger site, I was under the impression that I could call any phone number. It wasn't until I downloaded the software that I realized that's not the case. Looks like a lot of people are confused.
voip is a technology, you can leverage this technology to encapsulate and signal voice in IP. that's it, you can use it to call PC or call phone, that's only its application. Make clear technology .vs. application first.
"Yahoo Inc's will be limited to PC-to-PC calling to contacts on the messenger buddy list."
Well pardon me if i'm wrong but this sentence IS wrong from what I'mobersving
so why is it I can place a Net2Phone call from the Actions drop down menu?...I mean isn't that VoIP?
Link 1 :
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/messenger/win/beta/voip/voip-03.html
Maybe the rates are far from competiting with Skype (I sincerely dunno I have never used Skype) but it seems to be the same tool:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/messenger/win/beta/voip/voip-03.html
Did I miss something here?
The difference between VOIM and VOIP is pretty damn small, especially considering that Yahoo no doubt has plans to add PSTN support to their service. It would be insane not to.
Yahoo! will have business issues having their own PC-to-Phone functionality since they are partnered with telecoms/DSL providers like SBC and Verizon in the US, and British Telecom in the UK. Yahoo! could distribute a specific version of IM with those partners to do branded PC-to-Phone, but if Yahoo! came out with their own, they could be competing as well or maybe the DSL/telecoms are fine with co-opetition...
What about Yahoo's collaboration with BT communicator (in the UK)? Isn't that PC-to-Phone? Is Yahoo denying that partnership..?
"Nearly every Skype user I've talked to about the service uses it specifically because it allows them to call regular phone numbers cheaply"
As of March 11 2005, Skype had 29 million registered users and 1 million of which had signed up for the SkypeOut service.
http://www.skype.com/company/news/2005/1m_skypeout.html)
If less that 4% of Skype's users are actually calling traditional telephone numbers, is this really the feature that is driving adoption?
I use Skype because no IM client that I have found can be bothered to support voice on a Mac.
MSN, Yahoo & AOL all have Mac clients in which they fail to support voice.
I'm with beclear on this one. VOIP stands for "Voice over Internet Protocol". Using the literal definition, Yahoo! Messenger's new Calling feature is absolutely VOIP. It certainly isn't VOIM, Jeremey. The IM channel is completely separate from the voice channel in Yahoo! Messenger; you can get in a state where the voice servers are down but IM still works.
Regardless of what you call it, whether or not you think PC to PC calling is compelling is another story. But I do know that millions of Skype users think it's pretty cool. And as has been mentioned before, few of them are paying Skype any money for the PSTN features.
I'm with beclear on this one. VOIP stands for "Voice over Internet Protocol". Using the literal definition, Yahoo! Messenger's new Calling feature is absolutely VOIP. It certainly isn't VOIM, Jeremey. The IM channel is completely separate from the voice channel in Yahoo! Messenger; you can get in a state where the voice servers are down but IM still works.
Regardless of what you call it, whether or not you think PC to PC calling is compelling is another story. But I do know that millions of Skype users think it's pretty cool. And as has been mentioned before, few of them are paying Skype any money for the PSTN features.
This thread sounds like a cheap way to avoid the E911 issues surrounding VOIP - Good work Jeremy - Earning your keep.
Vonage works to a certain extent here in the Baja. I can call the States or Canada, but not Mexico. The Mexican ISPs have blocked its use for calling Mexican numbers.
I have heard that TELMEX, the major phone company on the mainland, chokes your bandwidth when they identify that your computer is being used for the Vonage Voip system, thus eliminating the capability of using the Vonage system.
I have not experienced this "choking" problem here in northern Baja, which uses a different phone company/ISP hook-up.
Guillaume above is right, you can make PC-to-PSTN calls through the new Y! messenger, via Net2Phone - see also
http://www.corante.com/getreal/archives/2005/05/20/yahoo_does_voip.php
Hi Jeremy,
This is my first comment and I had a few points some of which are valid I suppose:
1)
When you say that
> "Yahoo Inc's will be limited to PC-to-PC calling
> to contacts on the messenger buddy list."
This should not necessarily be seen as a limitation I guess. One, because Y! has been able to connect the "PC world's IM" to the "mobile world" by way of allowing Y! IM messages to be directed to mobile phones. Soon, they may have a setup similar where calls and not just text messages can be redirectd to mobiles. And the Y! IM (and Y! itself) is much much more feature rich (with things like launchcast) than Skype. So, it may just a matter of time, before Y! becomes more acceptable than Skype.
2)
Regarding conferencing, I have noticed that skype allows conferences but limits the maximum participants to 4. This limitation may not be there in Yahoo. That can be a plus point.
3)
But, quality may prove to be a decisive factor. Given that Skype is a leader in VOIP, and the expertise they have, it may not be easy for Yahoo to match up to Skype's quality.
- Nithin
Guyz,
I need to have some inputs here for our first ever IM. We try to have features that similar or almost similar to what Yahoo, MSN or skype have. Basically our IM is for marketing purpose to inform our customer or non customer on new product launching or events or service interruption. But at the same time we try to penetrate the IM market by offering this tool to mass market users.
Thus I would like to have some suggestions from forumers here on what are the features that you prefer and that features currently not exist or not up to the standard you want.
Who knows our IM may become one of the popular IM in the future and you may discussing about it then..
-Jinggut-
Skype Out/In etc have nothing to do with VoIP. VoIP is simply Voice over Internet Protocol, which is what both Skype and Yahoo! are doing.
VoIM makes no sense at all, and must have been coined by a non-technican.
